When he was here, this was small time. We had to go through...

When he was here, this was small time. We had to go through some very, very difficult times early on. When I first started, the department was over $2 million in debt, there was no one in the (football) stadium, we had issues with Title IX. We had to start from scratch, and there were some very difficult decisions made. Joel was in the middle of that.